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Best General RenVM Questions of January 2020

Best General RenVM Questions of January 2020

‌*These questions are sourced directly from Telegram
Q: When you say RenVM is Trustless, Permissionless, and Decentralized, what does that actually mean?
A: Trustless = RenVM is a virtual machine (a network of nodes, that do computations), this means if you ask RenVM to trade an asset via smart contract logic, it will. No trusted intermediary that holds assets or that you need to rely on. Because RenVM is a decentralized network and computes verified information in a secure environment, no single party can prevent users from sending funds in, withdrawing deposited funds, or computing information needed for updating outside ledgers. RenVM is an agnostic and autonomous virtual broker that holds your digital assets as they move between blockchains.
Permissionless = RenVM is an open protocol; meaning anyone can use RenVM and any project can build with RenVM. You don't need anyone's permission, just plug RenVM into your dApp and you have interoperability.
Decentralized = The nodes that power RenVM ( Darknodes) are scattered throughout the world. RenVM has a peak capacity of up to 10,000 Darknodes (due to REN’s token economics). Realistically, there will probably be 100 - 500 Darknodes run in the initial Mainnet phases, ample decentralized nonetheless.

Q: Okay, so how can you prove this?
A: The publication of our audit results will help prove the trustlessness piece; permissionless and decentralized can be proven today.
Permissionless = https://github.com/renproject/ren-js
Decentralized = https://chaosnet.renproject.io/

Q: How does Ren sMPC work? Sharmir's secret sharing? TSS?
A: There is some confusion here that keeps arising so I will do my best to clarify.TL;DR: *SSS is just data. It’s what you do with the data that matters. RenVM uses sMPC on SSS to create TSS for ECDSA keys.*SSS and TSS aren’t fundamental different things. It’s kind of like asking: do you use numbers, or equations? Equations often (but not always) use numbers or at some point involve numbers.
SSS by itself is just a way of representing secret data (like numbers). sMPC is how to generate and work with that data (like equations). One of the things you can do with that work is produce a form of TSS (this is what RenVM does).
However, TSS is slightly different because it can also be done *without* SSS and sMPC. For example, BLS signatures don’t use SSS or sMPC but they are still a form of TSS.
So, we say that RenVM uses SSS+sMPC because this is more specific than just saying TSS (and you can also do more with SSS+sMPC than just TSS). Specifically, all viable forms of turning ECDSA (a scheme that isn’t naturally threshold based) into a TSS needs SSS+sMPC.
People often get confused about RenVM and claim “SSS can’t be used to sign transactions without making the private key whole again”. That’s a strange statement and shows a fundamental misunderstanding about what SSS is.
To come back to our analogy, it’s like saying “numbers can’t be used to write a book”. That’s kind of true in a direct sense, but there are plenty of ways to encode a book as numbers and then it’s up to how you interpret (how you *use*) those numbers. This is exactly how this text I’m writing is appearing on your screen right now.
SSS is just secret data. It doesn’t make sense to say that SSS *functions*. RenVM is what does the functioning. RenVM *uses* the SSSs to represent private keys. But these are generated and used and destroyed as part of sMPC. The keys are never whole at any point.

Q: Thanks for the explanation. Based on my understanding of SSS, a trusted dealer does need to briefly put the key together. Is this not the case?
A: Remember, SSS is just the representation of a secret. How you get from the secret to its representation is something else. There are many ways to do it. The simplest way is to have a “dealer” that knows the secret and gives out the shares. But, there are other ways. For example: we all act as dealers, and all give each other shares of our individual secret. If there are N of us, we now each have N shares (one from every person). Then we all individually add up the shares that we have. We now each have a share of a “global” secret that no one actually knows. We know this global secret is the sum of everyone’s individual secrets, but unless you know every individual’s secret you cannot know the global secret (even though you have all just collectively generates shares for it). This is an example of an sMPC generation of a random number with collusion resistance against all-but-one adversaries.

Q: If you borrow Ren, you can profit from the opposite Ren gain. That means you could profit from breaking the network and from falling Ren price (because breaking the network, would cause Ren price to drop) (lower amount to be repaid, when the bond gets slashed)
A: Yes, this is why it’s important there has a large number of Darknodes before moving to full decentralisation (large borrowing becomes harder). We’re exploring a few other options too, that should help prevent these kinds of issues.

Q: What are RenVM’s Security and Liveliness parameters?
A: These are discussed in detail in our Wiki, please check it out here: https://github.com/renproject/ren/wiki/Safety-and-Liveliness#analysis

Q: What are the next blockchain under consideration for RenVM?
A: These can be found here: https://github.com/renproject/ren/wiki/Supported-Blockchains

Q: I've just read that Aztec is going to be live this month and currently tests txs with third parties. Are you going to participate in early access or you just more focused on bringing Ren to Subzero stage?
A: At this stage, our entire focus is on Mainnet SubZero. But, we will definitely be following up on integrating with AZTEC once everything is out and stable.

Q: So how does RenVM compare to tBTC, Thorchain, WBTC, etc..?
A: An easy way to think about it is..RenVM’s functionality is a combination of tBTC (+ WBTC by extension), and Thorchain’s (proposed) capabilities... All wrapped into one. Just depends on what the end-user application wants to do with it.

Q1: What are the core technical/security differences between RenVM and tBTC?A1: The algorithm used by tBTC faults if even one node goes offline at the wrong moment (and the whole “keep” of nodes can be penalised for this). RenVM can survive 1/3rd going offline at any point at any time. Advantage for tBTC is that collusion is harder, disadvantage is obviously availability and permissionlessness is lower.
tBTC an only mint/burn lots of 1 BTC and requires an on-Ethereum SPV relay for Bitcoin headers (and for any other chain it adds). No real advantage trade-off IMO.
tBTC has a liquidation mechanism that means nodes can have their bond liquidated because of ETH/BTC price ratio. Advantage means users can get 1 BTC worth of ETH. Disadvantage is it means tBTC is kind of a synthetic: needs a price feed, needs liquid markets for liquidation, users must accept exposure to ETH even if they only hold tBTC, nodes must stay collateralized or lose lots of ETH. RenVM doesn’t have this, and instead uses fees to prevent becoming under-collateralized. This requires a mature market, and assumed Darknodes will value their REN bonds fairly (based on revenue, not necessarily what they can sell it for at current —potentially manipulated—market value). That can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on how you feel.
tBTC focuses more on the idea of a tokenized version of BTC that feels like an ERC20 to the user (and is). RenVM focuses more on letting the user interact with DeFi and use real BTC and real Bitcoin transactions to do so (still an ERC20 under the hood, but the UX is more fluid and integrated). Advantage of tBTC is that it’s probably easier to understand and that might mean better overall experience, disadvantage really comes back to that 1 BTC limit and the need for a more clunky minting/burning experience that might mean worse overall experience. Too early to tell, different projects taking different bets.
tBTC supports BTC (I think they have ZEC these days too). RenVM supports BTC, BCH, and ZEC (docs discuss Matic, XRP, and LTC).
Q2: This are my assumed differences between tBTC and RenVM, are they correct? Some key comparisons:
-Both are vulnerable to oracle attacks
-REN federation failure results in loss or theft of all funds
-tBTC failures tend to result in frothy markets, but holders of tBTC are made whole
-REN quorum rotation is new crypto, and relies on honest deletion of old key shares
-tBTC rotates micro-quorums regularly without relying on honest deletion
-tBTC relies on an SPV relay
-REN relies on federation honesty to fill the relay's purpose
-Both are brittle to deep reorgs, so expanding to weaker chains like ZEC is not clearly a good idea
-REN may see total system failure as the result of a deep reorg, as it changes federation incentives significantly
-tBTC may accidentally punish some honest micro-federations as the result of a deep reorg
-REN generally has much more interaction between incentive models, as everything is mixed into the same pot.
-tBTC is a large collection of small incentive models, while REN is a single complex incentive model
A2: To correct some points:
The oracle situation is different with RenVM, because the fee model is what determines the value of REN with respect to the cross-chain asset. This is the asset is what is used to pay the fee, so no external pricing is needed for it (because you only care about the ratio between REN and the cross-chain asset).
RenVM does rotate quorums regularly, in fact more regularly than in tBTC (although there are micro-quorums, each deposit doesn’t get rotated as far as I know and sticks around for up to 6 months). This rotation involves rotations of the keys too, so it does not rely on honest deletion of key shares.
Federated views of blockchains are easier to expand to support deep re-orgs (just get the nodes to wait for more blocks for that chain). SPV requires longer proofs which begins to scale more poorly.
Not sure what you mean by “one big pot”, but there are multiple quorums so the failure of one is isolated from the failures of others. For example, if there are 10 shards supporting BTC and one of them fails, then this is equivalent to a sudden 10% fee being applied. Harsh, yes, but not total failure of the whole system (and doesn’t affect other assets).
Would be interesting what RenVM would look like with lots more shards that are smaller. Failure becomes much more isolated and affects the overall network less.
Further, the amount of tBTC you can mint is dependent on people who are long ETH and prefer locking it up in Keep for earning a smallish fee instead of putting it in Compound or leveraging with dydx. tBTC is competing for liquidity while RenVM isn't.

Q: I understand correctly RenVM (sMPC) can get up to a 50% security threshold, can you tell me more?
A: The best you can theoretically do with sMPC is 50-67% of the total value of REN used to bond Darknodes (RenVM will eventually work up to 50% and won’t go for 67% because we care about liveliness just as much as safety). As an example, if there’s $1M of REN currently locked up in bonded Darknodes you could have up to $500K of tokens shifted through RenVM at any one specific moment. You could do more than that in daily volume, but at any one moment this is the limit.Beyond this limit, you can still remain secure but you cannot assume that players are going to be acting to maximize their profit. Under this limit, a colluding group of adversaries has no incentive to subvert safety/liveliness properties because the cost to attack roughly outweighs the gain. Beyond this limit, you need to assume that players are behaving out of commitment to the network (not necessarily a bad assumption, but definitely weaker than the maximizing profits assumption).

Q: Why is using ETH as collateral for RenVM a bad idea?
A: Using ETH as collateral in this kind of system (like having to deposit say 20 ETH for a bond) would not make any sense because the collateral value would then fluctuate independently of what kind of value RenVM is providing. The REN token on the other hand directly correlates with the usage of RenVM which makes bonding with REN much more appropriate. DAI as a bond would not work as well because then you can't limit attackers with enough funds to launch as many darknodes as they want until they can attack the network. REN is limited in supply and therefore makes it harder to get enough of it without the price shooting up (making it much more expensive to attack as they would lose their bonds as well).
A major advantage of Ren's specific usage of sMPC is that security can be regulated economically. All value (that's being interopped at least) passing through RenVM has explicit value. The network can self-regulate to ensure an attack is never worth it.

Q: Given the fee model proposal/ceiling, might be a liquidity issue with renBTC. More demand than possible supply?A: I don’t think so. As renBTC is minted, the fees being earned by Darknodes go up, and therefore the value of REN goes up. Imagine that the demand is so great that the amount of renBTC is pushing close to 100% of the limit. This is a very loud and clear message to the Darknodes that they’re going to be earning good fees and that demand is high. Almost by definition, this means REN is worth more.
Profits of the Darknodes, and therefore security of the network, is based solely on the use of the network (this is what you want because your network does not make or break on things outside the systems control). In a system like tBTC there are liquidity issues because you need to convince ETH holders to bond ETH and this is an external problem. Maybe ETH is pumping irrespective of tBTC use and people begin leaving tBTC to sell their ETH. Or, that ETH is dumping, and so tBTC nodes are either liquidated or all their profits are eaten by the fact that they have to be long on ETH (and tBTC holders cannot get their BTC back in this case). Feels real bad man.

Q: I’m still wondering which asset people will choose: tbtc or renBTC? I’m assuming the fact that all tbtc is backed by eth + btc might make some people more comfortable with it.
A: Maybe :) personally I’d rather know that my renBTC can always be turned back into BTC, and that my transactions will always go through. I also think there are many BTC holders that would rather not have to “believe in ETH” as an externality just to maximize use of their BTC.

Q: How does the liquidation mechanism work? Can any party, including non-nodes act as liquidators? There needs to be a price feed for liquidation and to determine the minting fee - where does this price feed come from?
A: RenVM does not have a liquidation mechanism.
Q: I don’t understand how the price feeds for minting fees make sense. You are saying that the inputs for the fee curve depend on the amount of fees derived by the system. This is circular in a sense?
A: By evaluating the REN based on the income you can get from bonding it and working. The only thing that drives REN value is the fact that REN can be bonded to allow work to be done to earn revenue. So any price feed (however you define it) is eventually rooted in the fees earned.

Q: Who’s doing RenVM’s Security Audit?
A: ChainSecurity | https://chainsecurity.com/

Q: Can you explain RenVM’s proposed fee model?
A: The proposed fee model can be found here: https://github.com/renproject/ren/wiki/Safety-and-Liveliness#fees

Q: Can you explain in more detail the difference between "execution" and "powering P2P Network". I think that these functions are somehow overlapping? Can you define in more detail what is "execution" and "powering P2P Network"? You also said that at later stages semi-core might still exist "as a secondary signature on everything (this can mathematically only increase security, because the fully decentralised signature is still needed)". What power will this secondary signature have?
A: By execution we specifically mean signing things with the secret ECDSA keys. The P2P network is how every node communicates with every other node. The semi-core doesn’t have any “special powers”. If it stays, it would literally just be a second signature required (as opposed to the one signature required right now).
This cannot affect safety, because the first signature is still required. Any attack you wanted to do would still have to succeed against the “normal” part of the network. This can affect liveliness, because the semi-core could decide not to sign. However, the semi-core follows the same rules as normal shards. The signature is tolerant to 1/3rd for both safety/liveliness. So, 1/3rd+ would have to decide to not sign.
Members of the semi-core would be there under governance from the rest of our ecosystem. The idea is that members would be chosen for their external value. We’ve discussed in-depth the idea of L<3. But, if RenVM is used in MakerDAO, Compound, dYdX, Kyber, etc. it would be desirable to capture the value of these ecosystems too, not just the value of REN bonded. The semi-core as a second signature is a way to do this.
Imagine if the members for those projects, because those projects want to help secure renBTC, because it’s used in their ecosystems. There is a very strong incentive for them to behave honestly. To attack RenVM you first have to attack the Darknodes “as per usual” (the current design), and then somehow convince 1/3rd of these projects to act dishonestly and collapse their own ecosystems and their own reputations. This is a very difficult thing to do.
Worth reminding: the draft for this proposal isn’t finished. It would be great for everyone to give us their thoughts on GitHub when it is proposed, so we can keep a persistent record.

Q: Which method or equation is used to calculate REN value based on fees? I'm interested in how REN value is calculated as well, to maintain the L < 3 ratio?
A: We haven’t finalized this yet. But, at this stage, the plan is to have a smart contract that is controlled by the Darknodes. We want to wait to see how SubZero and Zero go before committing to a specific formulation, as this will give us a chance to bootstrap the network and field inputs from the Darknodes owners after the earnings they can make have become more apparent.
submitted by RENProtocol to RenProject [link] [comments]

A Hefty Apology..

First, I'd like to apologies for how long this is going to be, but I believe context is everything.
I'd like to apologize to the Nano community. Since before the re brand I've always cracked jokes about the project, primarily because I can't stand moonbois.. but I digress.
I guess you could say I was early on the Bitcoin chain. I was blown away by the white paper and mined coins before ASICs we're even a discussion. Never got rid of them or anything, just thought it was an amazing concept to me since I had been repeatedly jacked around by a few banks. However, as a recurring theme life happened and I fell out of it completely. A few years went by when someone brought it up to me and when I asked how much it was worth, I almost had a heart attack. Probably shouldn't have spilled beer on the laptop holding my address and key. It didn't even cross my mind when I threw it out..
So I was back, other projects were on the come up and I took interest. Thought they were great, still do.. But I couldn't wrap my head around a lot of it. I'm familiar with code like I am around the block of an engine, but I'm not a mechanic. I couldn't fathom having to use a calculator to figure out how much gas I needed to send 100 coins of X. Thought I did it right and boom... Dust. The rage. Made some good strides and learned from previous mistakes, but I was still somewhat upset with decisions made within these projects. Who would think that was okay? Life happened again and I dropped out for quite awhile again to return back to a colleague at work mentioning BTC at around 9K. I quietly (I don't mention to many people about how involved I've been) checked out my addresses and was blown away. So I was back.
Yeah I made gains (lost a lot too), but I was already well on my way in life and career and didn't need the rocket in some dream of a lambo (Masi's are better). I just wanted all of this to work. Again, it seemed like it was too hard to do anything, move things around... Dust here, dust there.. None the less, I learned more. Taught myself some code just so I could understand the githubs.. No desire to code, just wanted to learn. The dream I saw a few years ago was growing and I felt optimistic. Stuck around for a long run and then life happened again.
Came back at probably the best time in late summer 2017. You want to talk about diversification... I just (today) burned a stack of papers with private keys written down to projects I forgot even existed. The mayhem! Anyway, won some lost some yeah yeah everyone has those stories....
I was still frustrated because that image I had in my head when I was a bit younger was not really fulfilled. Man, these moonbois, let me tell you. At the time and shortly after cracking jokes and having fun was basically my MO (I'm very sarcastic, still am). But yet again, life happened and I let everything just sit where the chips were.. With the exception of those burned out GPUs and the S9's. They went into the trash.
Life gave me a nice little easy path more recently and I've been poking my head around again. The moonboi epidemic is definitely at an ATH. But where the hell was this image I had years back and now and why did it seem like it died? Too many scams? Too many hacks? Too much smoke and mirrors? The founding idea is/was so perfect?
But I wanted that image. The past couple weeks I've been being my sarcastic ass and ripping a bit on Nano. I saw an actual well thought out post on Reddit and thought “Alright, that's pretty well said. Let me hear this out.” So I took a look. Thought it was better put together than other projects so I lurked around.
Today in the daily general I asked for a laymen's approach. I didn't need it, but I wanted to see what would be thrown at me. I was impressed. I saw on another thread about Natrium and a faucet... DAMN, that was fast. Alright I thought, let's dabble. So I did what I always do.. Took a little BTC to the exchange, picked up some nano, set up the ledger and mobile app and tested some stuff out.
Do you know the feeling after everything I just said to send 10 Nano from the exchange (including fee) to a mobile wallet, to the ledger, back to the mobile wallet and then back to the exchange and in the end... still have 10 Nano? In under less than I don't even know.. as fast as I could copy and paste it?!
I called for my wife took her phone and sent myself 10 Nano back and forth. Man am I an asshole. I'm not “In” so to speak, because honestly, at this point. I don't care about prices. I just want to use the shit. Life happens, I want to be able to continue down life and use this shit. The last time I actually used BTC for anything was in 2014.
BTC is digital gold for me.. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... Sounds like some WSJ headline, I know. But it's been a good hedge against inflation for what's it worth. But during that second to last time I was back.. the Tx fees were unbelievable. Store of value, all the way, buying a snickers bar? No thanks mate.
I'm actually late to meet a friend at the bar for our weekly pint, was gonna just send this, but he's a moonboi. One sec. Lol --- 45 min later --- Alright, at the pub. Got him to download Natrium. We're now gonna just buy eac hother drinks for the next few hours.
I have some questions regarding decentralization.. bottle necking, spam transactions, but I can ask them in discord I guess. My only fear is that this could be replicated by Chase/BofA etc, but then again, I kind of left them years ago for a reason.
I'm sorry, okay. I'm sorry I was a sarcastic asshole. This is by far the closest thing I've wanted in a very long time. Send 1 Nano.. Get 1 Nano. Who would have thought. I'm going back to darts, but before I go...
- Can someone send me something on how to set up a node? Walk through maybe?
- Mods should pin this. I don't care about worthless internet points. Truth is I'm on my 9th or 10th Reddit account. So, I'll retire this one as soon as I hit send. But I think there is a valuable lesson from my time in this crazy town.
I'm not getting rid of my BTC and “going all in for the moonbois”. But I'll definitely be using my Nano. Whenever or wherever I can.
Thank you.
submitted by zBeale to nanocurrency [link] [comments]

Bad Timing: The Saga of my Personnal Sadness :^(

Listen to this sht. So I actually did a little research into BitCoin in 2014 during my first deployment to Afghanistan back when BC was sitting at around 600$ and thought it was a cool idea. I didn't have enough disposable cash so in the end I decided to stay out and promptly forgot about it. Then in 2016 while in college someone mentioned it, and I was actually in a more stable position financially so I REALLY REALLY REALLY considered buying in, but, in the end, decided to go fck Filipino chicks for two weeks. :(
Fast forward to november f*cking 25th. Again, back in the caustic wasteland of Afghanistan (this time as a contractor making like 6 times what I made in the army) I hop on Facebook and see that Bitcoin has been jumping at an insane rate (shit Wi-Fi, and 12.5 hour shifts had shielded me from info that BC had actually changed in value after it's seemingly 50 year hibernation). As a fellow techie, and huge proponent of making money, I immediately make a CoinBase account and link bank/etc. I eagerly sift through the media quagmire of misinformation and blatant attempts by entrenched banking institutions to Sabatoge what I see as one of this centuries greatest inventions in search of real data in order to decide which currency to hedge my bet. After seeing currencies continue to make astronomical gains, I settle on my choice; Litecoin, 6:30 P.M my time 29 November 2017, 102.5 dollars per LTC.
My fingers faintly shake as I open the app and enter the transaction amount. Roughly 6700$ total (a months pay here working 87.5 hrs/week). I hesitate, fully understanding that there is a chance the currency could tank, but my eyes cloud over, and all I can see are those crisp, gleaming green numbers skyrocketing ever higher, towards what number no one yet knows. As I hesitate, I see someone off in the distance. I focus my internal gaze and see a younger version of myself.
Raised in poverty, and freshly exposed to the world, younger me has only three goals in life. Get rich, take care of my little sistefuture family (unlike my parents), and make sure not to lose myself in the process. To make sure that I stay true to my slightly skewed moral code of trying to be a decent human being. Young; mini-me stares back, and imperceptibly nods his tiny f*cking mini-me head, he would approve. I blink a few times to clear my dry eyes, the fog lifts, I click buy.
I get off my phone and back to work, toiling at the earth. A mere peasant, a beast of burden among a flock of the like. Dreams of rising from the ashes of normality, and the drudgery of my peasant life on the backs of glistening clouds of silver block chain, and gusting green winds of gains fill my head as I work my young yet worn body under the whip of the soulless, godless, heathen MAN. Shifts up, no time for dinner, I need sleep.
 -Chapter Two- ;( 
5:00 A.M in the pre-dawn hours of November 30th, 2017, I wake to the sound of my alarm beeping softly from the makeshift plywood table beside my bed. I am not a morning person, mornings for me consist of profuse swearing and ample amounts of coffee. After abusing my coworkers for an hour or so, I generally reach some semblance of a living albeit pissed organism; but today is different. Before I even take a moment to wipe the still moist drool from my freshly parched lips I reach for the still screeching alarm quickly silencing it.
In the night I had dreamt of fields of flowing flowers tipped with dollar bills, budding silver LiteCoins hanging from the bows of dogwoods, and Hillary Clinton being sold into Chattel-slavery as a personnal gift from the God Emperor himself.
Upon entering the simple pin, I could hardly believe my eyes. WHAT THE FCK IS THIS!?!?!?!? 86$/LTC!?!? My hereditary state of grogginess immediately disappears as I see the previously beautiful inclining lines and crisp 1080p green numbers have some how been dyed a terrifying hue one could describe in no other term than a deep, crimson. I blink, I blink again, I BLINK REALLY REALLY REEEEEEALLY FCKING HARD, yet the current status changes not. I pause, puckering my lips as I do basic mathematical calculations to decide if I should start wh*ring myself out to the local population at 20 bucks a pop, after all, they tell me I'm cute 😀😑.
After realising that: A. CoinBase is down for maintenance (fck you btw, I'll burn your fcking building down)
And B. Selling my anal virginity isn't cost effective once you calculate therapy costs.
I decided the best option would be to get myself blown up by some local dck head so I can claim DBA. So here I am, asking random Afghans if they "shuma infejar maykhwahayde" (you have bomb?) In the hopes that one will be "yep" and choose me as the lucky recipient of whatever fcking shrapnel he's packing.
Ahhh, also I'm now officially a hodler, because I would in all honestly rather sell bone marrow, or volunteer to test the effects of shared needles between crack heads and non-crack heads than willingly give up my shiny (cursed) LTC. Overall I'd have to give this ride a solid 10/10, would wait 8 mother fcking hours longer next time before the universe fist fcks me into a Hispanic, donkey show look-a-like.
submitted by The_Pepper_Pooper to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Jim Preissler, CEO AMA Session On Telegram, Friday 13 July 2018 - Everything!

For those of you who like to go through everything in their correct order to get context, here is the full AMA from beginning to end. Knock yourself out.

Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:01]
Hi everyone
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:01]
[In reply to Henry]
The first 1000 will receive email either on 16 or 17, but before exchange actually launch.
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:01]
Jim in the house! ??
Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:01]
Hi jim
trade.io, [14.07.18 00:01]
Hello Jim!
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:01]
[ GIF ]
TSas, [14.07.18 00:01]
Hello Jim
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:02]
Hello jim
Satish, [14.07.18 00:02]
Wassup man!
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:02]
Been busy getting ready for the launch and signing some more partnerships for us
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:02]
Hi Jim
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:02]
Good morning / afternoon / evening / go to bed to all of you!
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:03]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
[ GIF ]
Le Tai, [14.07.18 00:03]
Hi Jim
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:03]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
yeah, thats exactly how I feel
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:04]
Nice to hear the new partnerships
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:05]
Hey
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:05]
Jim can u tell me which all coins will be listed intialy??
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:06]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
Initial will be the basic, big coins, but then will roll out a ton after, especially ERC20
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:06]
Have a bunch of listings and ICO clients that will come out quickly as well
trade.io, [14.07.18 00:06]
Hi Jim, here's a question and a suggestion from Phil(@PhilWall10):
  1. When the calculator will be available for the lp pool?
  2. I would like to see a 1% bonus for the first day that the exchange is Trading ,just for investors that held over 25,000 Tio's something like that would be nice.
Zeep, [14.07.18 00:06]
hi Jim
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I am asking for those 10 basis ones
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:07]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
is there a particular one that you are driving towards?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07]
Eos
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07]
Xrp
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:08]
I can help out here, as the list came up a short time ago:
BTC - Bitcoin
BCH - Bitcoin Cash
ETH- Ethereum
LTC - Litecoin
TIO - TradeToken
USDT - May be available right at launch or at the very least within 2-3 days following launch
TSas, [14.07.18 00:08]
Jim, here's a question: What are the plans with FX Primus?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:08]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
Both those require testing, ERC20 will be sooner
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:08]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
K
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:09]
Jim, Can you speak any on the progress with regards to regulations in the various jurisdictions? Which jurisdictions is trade.io currently focusing on, or which is top priority at the moment?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:09]
Also can u please tell me approx figures u have earned out of ico consultantancy..? Just to have a idea about profit in ico
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:10]
Also what is your status for regulatory licences??
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:10]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Working on HK, Singapore, Switzerland, Malta right now as the bigger ones. Smaller ones as well. We are meeting with regulators in the US as well
HODL Droid, [14.07.18 00:10]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Same question + will TIO be tradeable with other comodities listed under FX Primus ?
Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:10]
Hello, Jim.
My question is : After the exchange has been launched, how is the price movement of TIO in the future?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:10]
Are u also acuiring one for india??
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:10]
I want to ask when can we have the new Roadmap?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:11]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
@JimPreissler
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:11]
Lets hold until Jim clears these questions.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12]
[In reply to Jimmy Choo]
you tell me
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:12]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
:))
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
India is unclear as to regulations right now
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12]
[In reply to Ro$€]
After exchange and LP launches
Le Tai, [14.07.18 00:13]
When exchange platform support fiat? Thank you
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:13]
[In reply to HODL Droid]
@biggiepaul will get back to you
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:14]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
@JimPreissler please answer this as well
Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:14]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Do you not have any estimation for it?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:14]
[In reply to Le Tai]
soon, there is no regulatory issue, just want to scale into features
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:14]
[In reply to HODL Droid]
Most likely not, as its a crytpo asset so it will be traded against other cryptos.
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:15]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Can you clearer on that? Will we have connect with bank account, convert directly into fiat?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:15]
@JimPreissler what is the ETA for decentralised exchange??
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:15]
Hi Jim, could you tell me when LP will full launch? After 30 days of exchange? And the profit of LP will count from the 1st day of exchange launch?
Morbidus, [14.07.18 00:16]
Will Trade.io move to comply with the SEC and other regulatory bodies worldwide as they ask for information on customer protections, etc?
TSas, [14.07.18 00:16]
[In reply to TSas]
Answer pls Jim
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:16]
Guys, kindly hold off on the rapid fire q's, pls let Jim answer one at a time
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:16]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
profit starts immediately, LP will launch after 30 days
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:17]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Full launch or Beta launch?
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:17]
[In reply to Jimmy Choo]
Impossible to know, however, we are actively exploring moving TIO to exclusively to be traded on trade.io exchange and delist from other exchanges, for more control over price manipulation.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:17]
[In reply to Morbidus]
Already started, meetings already happening. We will do what we can to eliminate insider trading, wash trading, bots, fake volumes, all the bad things that hurt customers and plague other exchnges
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:18]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
There is no ETA at this time, we're fully focused on making sure we have a flawless centralized exchange and execute on the liquidity pool.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:18]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
there is no more beta, full launch is next week
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:18]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
????
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I mean the about the LP
Morbidus, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
great thanks
Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Sweet????
Tommy Vu, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
??????
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
profits start accumulating next week
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
Whats solution in the future to avoid sth like Bitforex?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:19]
@JimPreissler will Tio offer margin trading??
" Not giving away CS, CAS and TIO", [14.07.18 00:19]
When 1 tio
Zeep, [14.07.18 00:19]
how much coin exchange?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:19]
[In reply to Ro$€]
they picked us up on their own
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:20]
And What about futures and options (F&O)[email protected]
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:20]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
We will, working with risk mgmt to get it structured
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:20]
[In reply to Ro$€]
Impossible to prevent a supposed decentralized exchange from listing TIO
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:20]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
Talking to some vendors specifically about this as possible partners
Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:20]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
Thank you, Jim.
Hope exchange is a hit. ??
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:21]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
LP not sooner than 1 month following exchange launch
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:21]
[In reply to Jimmy Choo]
It will be unlike anything anyone has seen yet.
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:21]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Maybe question is about the launch only being for 1000 people. Is LP being targeted launching 30 days after July 17th? or after it is fully available unlimited>
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:21]
@JimPreissler will Tio have algo trading??
Zeep, [14.07.18 00:21]
jim. how much coin exchange?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:22]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
the limitation to 1000 is not really for technology reasons, its more to allow customer support to get feet under them before we pummel them
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:22]
Jim, I know this a tough one, but there is a lot of specuative thoughts around what LP will share when it starts, and I saw way too optimistic, in my view. Today, the expectation of nothing will be distributed on the first month and lots will be distributed that will make TIO moon are two events of equal probability, at least for me. Can give us a better directions that any of this outcome is not a 50/50 probability? Or being more direct, how much can we expect from LP daily payouts in the first month? Nothing at all? Something more than current airdrops program? Or much more than current airdrops? thank you.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:22]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
talking to a partner on that currently as well
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:22]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I mean which version of LP will launch after 30 days of exchange full launch? Beta version LP or full version LP? I see the new road map on trade.io website, it has beta LP.
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:23]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
there is only a full version of LP, there is no beta version of LP
Zeep, [14.07.18 00:23]
jim. how much coin list on exchange?
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:23]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Fantastic
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:23]
@JimPreissler just a confirmation that u have wavied trading fee but we will get other income like spread in lp for 17 july to 17 aug (30 days after launch)??
Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:23]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Nice????
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:23]
[In reply to Hiro S]
The exchange needs to ramp and generate volume, then the LP will have meaningful distributions
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:24]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
not sooner or not later?
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:24]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
??, thank you.
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:24]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Note, that its 1K on Day 1, looking to open up to many thousands, within only a few days following launch
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:24]
[In reply to Zeep]
depends on volume and user base of the coin. send details to [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
TSas, [14.07.18 00:24]
Jim, what are the plans with FX Primus?
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:25]
[In reply to TSas]
Hey Tsas, i can help with that one.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:25]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
correct, only trading fee waived initially
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:25]
[In reply to TSas]
The current initiative with FXP, is to accept TIO as a deposit method, then eventually allow TIO to be traded on the platform.
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:25]
Which users will have profit from LP in the first 2 months? Only the first 1000? Any new formula to calculate
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:26]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Thanks for confirmation
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:26]
[In reply to Grimlock]
Definitely not sooner, and might be later.
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:26]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
Thank you, now knowing that is is limited release based mainly to help support team, it is a lot clearer.. Gives assurance that team is confident on the technology side
TSas, [14.07.18 00:26]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
?? thanks
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:26]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
No worries though, as revenue generated will be calculated from Day 1 of the launch
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:27]
Obviously, the success of the LP is directly tied to success of exchange
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:27]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
and vice versa i suppose
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:27]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
People harder to scale then tech
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:27]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Correct, there is no level of training that can prepare support/finance, etc. once live users come through the door. This is not our first rodeo with running brokerages, so we understand its a completely different ballgame once the bright lights are on.
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:28]
@JimPreissler will there be something which tells the days profit with its details for transperancy before lp launch?
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:28]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
so, revenue generated to this point, through ICO consultancy, etc... is not included in LP? Only what is generated after exchange launch?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:28]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
They said eariler it will be included
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:28]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
As i remember, it is included
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:28]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
There will be a LP distribution amount widget, but not promising that before LP launch
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:29]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
I stand corrected, you're correct, ICO consultancy rev's will be included regardless when exchange launches.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:29]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
its included
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:29]
You guys ROCK!!
Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:29]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
+1
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:29]
????????????????????????????
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:29]
Which users will get it and how?
Tommy Vu, [14.07.18 00:30]
[In reply to Crypto Bling]
??
Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:30]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
+10
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:30]
[In reply to Crypto Bling]
[ Photo ]
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:30]
Is there any hardware wallet also as a gift from selfkey partnership??
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:30]
Like airdrop
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:30]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
? not sure of Q
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:31]
My question pls Jim
Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:31]
How is about Blossom wallet?
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:31]
[In reply to Ro$€]
..
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:32]
Can u please tell security measures taken for exchange... As these days many exchanges are being hacked even the so called best exchange i.e. binance , bancor etc
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:32]
[In reply to Hai Nguyen]
That wallet is under development, which makes it easier to participate in ICOs, have KYC, etc.
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:32]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
And on that note....
Are there plans to provide insurance against hacking? If wallets get hacked is it guaranteed that owners will get all their tokens back? One suggestion is that part of the undistributed funds from the LP (due to tiers with percentages less than 100%) can be used to offer such insurance, If unnecessary...if not, could be retained by the company …Security is obviously of the utmost importance especially if trade.io is targeting institutional investors. This insurance would bring extra peace of mind.
Johnson, [14.07.18 00:33]
Jim, what measures will be taken to boost the trading volume of TIO token after launch of exchange. With liquidity pool, I think the volume might be very low as it is today
DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator, [14.07.18 00:33]
Hold on guys. Let jim answer Q one by one
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:33]
There was some thoughts that running costs would eat up the revenues that was already generated from consultancy arm that would left very few to be distributed. COuld you tell us this is not the case? And in general, costs to be subracted from LP is only direct costs that affects it, could you confirm that as well? thank you.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:33]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
We have inhouse, outside team, cloudflare, fireeye, etc.
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:34]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
I think the undistributed profit (as for those having less than 100%) will add to profit of next day
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:34]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
the important question is still: in case of any hacking, are we guaranteed our tokens back?
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:34]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
To elaborate, virtually all client assets are kept in cold storage as well.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:34]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
We are lookng for ans on that, so I like the suggestion. Nothing definative yet
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:35]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
I believe any undistributed for the day would be retained daily
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:35]
[In reply to Grimlock]
Agree, noone can say i am unhackable
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:36]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Thank you
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:36]
[In reply to Ro$€]
There is no company in the universe that is "unhackable"
DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator, [14.07.18 00:36]
Ro$€:
Which users will have profit from LP in the first 2 months? Only the first 1000? Any new formula to calculate
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:36]
[In reply to Johnson]
if you look at the token economics of TIO, it is deisgned to be more like a berkshire hathaway than a high volume penny stock. The goal is to drive value, not volume. The more value we create, and with low float, this will be good for price
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:37]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
At the end what to do with it ...it will keep on accumulating .... Better to distribute
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:37]
[In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io]
We are not skimping in any areas or security, it is a high priority
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:38]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
I think jim should clarify on this
Ray Zhang, [14.07.18 00:38]
Any news about the license?
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:38]
[In reply to Grimlock]
I would like to ask what the solution if that ever happens. For sure, i dont want it :) but i want to know
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:38]
Do we have any security feature like bnt had to freeze [email protected]
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:39]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
what was the orig Q again :)
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:39]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I definitely like that. ;)
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:40]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
The question is that... What will happen to the undistributed profit due to people having less than 100% profit share in lp??
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:40]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
@Guitarplyr
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:40]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
concerning undistributed LP profits, they do not roll over, correct? Retained daily by the company?
Soroush, [14.07.18 00:41]
Talking about licenses, Jim, can you tell us which one is your top priority? US, Swiss, FX?
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:41]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I simpatize with this “insurance” would be also a nice promo tool on top of all top security measures and if security play its roles it will be an asset that company will have anyway.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:41]
[In reply to Ro$€]
We will xplore insurance and other things, but same ans for all of crypto, there is nothing like FDIC yet
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:41]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Or put into seperate fund, to provide insurance, buy back and burn programs, etc... :)
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:42]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
cover down days is the main use
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:42]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
those can all be considered
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:43]
[In reply to Soroush]
scroll up a bit
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:43]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
This will be nice i think first to set aside 10%profit for buy and burn Tio and to distribute 50-50 (i.e. 45% of total ) to mgt and lp
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:43]
@JimPreissler
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:43]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Its why I love this company, project, and vision so much
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:43]
[In reply to Soroush]
U r bit late buddy
Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:45]
[In reply to Hiro S]
@JimPreissler can u comment on this pls. I think if LP is able to share good profits on first days that would be good marketing and this may possible because of accumulated revenues.
samy101, [14.07.18 00:45]
This is promising and time to buy more Tio’s.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:45]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
too early to be planning or discussing buybacks at this point, most don't fully understand the long term ramifications of this anyway. Most crypto doing this haven't thought it all the way through, but that is discussion for another day
Den, [14.07.18 00:46]
Hello guys, hi Jim! Got a question about negative days for LP. I don't really understand how it can be, exchange should stop trading and other revenue streams should be off for that day?
Oliver, [14.07.18 00:46]
Are you guys familiar with Ian Balina? He was hinting to an exchange partnership in his last video. The company will sponsor his world tour and meetup. It is not binance so I was hoping it could be TIO haha
Oliver, [14.07.18 00:46]
*that's for Jim or BD
Johnson, [14.07.18 00:46]
Jim, regarding trading TIO on competitors exchange. Are there plan to get TIO de-listed from other centralized exchange? This is necessary to avoid price manipulation. Also, is it possible that these exchange refuse to de-list TIO when you request?
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:47]
[In reply to Johnson]
Thats answered, up buddy
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:47]
[In reply to Den]
There is risk making markets and providing liquidity
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:48]
[In reply to Johnson]
They could refuse
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:48]
[In reply to Oliver]
+1
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49]
@JimPreissler is that exchange he is saying TIO
Hugo Cruz, [14.07.18 00:49]
What r the rewards for someone the buys TIO now before launch of exchange?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49]
[In reply to Hugo Cruz]
Capital gains
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:49]
[In reply to Hugo Cruz]
Capital appreciation.
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49]
[In reply to Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin]
U are late
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49]
Haha
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:50]
I know..
Hugo Cruz, [14.07.18 00:50]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
Thats wut they said when bitcoin was 20k.
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:50]
[In reply to DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator]
One more time Jim :) Q still
Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:51]
[In reply to Hugo Cruz]
30 cents vs 20k, c'mon man.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:51]
[In reply to Oliver]
I am going to find that Bitconnect guy! BITTTCOONNNEECTTT!
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:51]
[In reply to Johnson]
@JimPreissler please answer this
Oliver, [14.07.18 00:51]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
hahahaha
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:51]
[In reply to Ro$€]
We are only limiting to 1000 until customer service, and any other issues are under control
Leo Elias, [14.07.18 00:52]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
[ ?? Sticker ]
Dmitry K, [14.07.18 00:52]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
[ GIF ]
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:52]
Are MEW or other wallets going to be integrated in such a way as to make it possible to be able to participate in the LP without having them on the exchange? If this is actually possible that is. Will Private Keys be made available to the holders of the wallets in trade.io?
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:52]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
??????
Oliver, [14.07.18 00:52]
[ GIF ]
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:53]
[In reply to Johnson]
yes, we will try to pull down elsewhere. no guarantees they will do it though
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:53]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
It will make no sense for company. To share profit withour using assets
Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:53]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
That was cleared up, but how to distribute the LP profits from Ico, which custumers? Or we need the formular till LP launched?
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:54]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
Asking mainly for other community members who are looking for answers from managment
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:54]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Np
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:55]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
yeah, also not sure on security on that as well. May be part of hybrid DEX solution
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:56]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
And transaction fees would be high, since every transaction would be recorded on BC, cant really use ledger. Not ideal overall
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:56]
Couple more questions from community members...
Are there any updates on the Angel Investors Program?
What roles do Kosmos, Plutus VC and Blockway Capital play in the Angels Investors Program?
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:56]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Thank you for those answers
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:57]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
We are sending them deals to look at where they know we already did KYC, took a first pass, etc. They are also bring us deals to look at as well
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:58]
couple more minutes, then going to lunch!
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:58]
Will Tio place there own buy and sell orders toaintain liquidity??
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:58]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
one last question from me,
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:58]
are you confident that we are all going to the moon?
Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:59]
??
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:59]
[In reply to Grimlock]
??????
Satish, [14.07.18 00:59]
????????
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:59]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
@JimPreissler
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:59]
[In reply to Grimlock]
how much trading are you going to do :)
Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:00]
[In reply to Hiro S]
@JimPreissler can comment on that pls, thank you.
Soroush, [14.07.18 01:00]
Jim, will we have any kind of voting system for new coin listings?
Can you tell us anything about your plans on how new listings will be done? Would TIO owners have any privileges over others?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:00]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
We will keep risk low initially, but over time us and outside (insitutional) providers will be doing this
Grimlock, [14.07.18 01:00]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
am just going to hold. buckle up and sit tight. is that alright with you?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:00]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Very less ... As i am all in in TIO and now dont have any penny to trade
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:01]
[In reply to Hiro S]
You mean operations??? No that is covered from our 50%
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:01]
Any fear that the initial 1000 will be doing no trading since they are loyal TIO holders, and all-in already? ??????
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:02]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
Yes????
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:02]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
.
Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:02]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
ok, it is clearer now. thank you.
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:02]
[In reply to Dustin McDaniel]
then we add more
Leo Elias, [14.07.18 01:03]
Uscitizen when ?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:03]
[In reply to Hiro S]
An "expenese" would be an affiliate commission or something like that, not operations
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:04]
[In reply to Soroush]
we are not looking to limit coins by any means, just need a controlled process to roll them out
Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:04]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
understand even better now. :)
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:04]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Good... So approx how many coins before lp launch??
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:04]
[In reply to Leo Elias]
hopefully soon, been talking to FINRA and SEC
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:05]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
We will get to EOS and XRP pretty soon :)
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:05]
Haha
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:06]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
I want others too as have economic interest via lp
Jali, [14.07.18 01:06]
[Forwarded from .]
Ok Tnx
Got it
Leo Elias, [14.07.18 01:06]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
[ ?? Sticker ]
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:06]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
????
Johnson, [14.07.18 01:07]
I Missed response on licenses, can someone please repost?
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:07]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
@JimPreissler any estimate
Ro$€, [14.07.18 01:08]
Any plan that we can store Tio in hardware wallet like Ledge Nano?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:08]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
ERC20 - we are looking at rolling out maybe 200 as soon as possible, but priority is on listing clients and ICO clients
Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:08]
[In reply to Johnson]
Working on HK, Singapore, Switzerland, Malta right now as the bigger ones. Smaller ones as well. We are meeting with regulators in the US as well
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:08]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
K
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:08]
[In reply to S Aggarwal]
And for you, EOS and XRP
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:09]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Thanks
trade.io, [14.07.18 01:09]
[In reply to Johnson]
I'll PM you
Soroush, [14.07.18 01:09]
[In reply to Jim Preissler]
Consider Tezos too plz, right now they only have two low-key exchanges available with high fees
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:09]
[In reply to Soroush]
sure
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:09]
Maybe they can pay us to list them :)
Jack, [14.07.18 01:10]
hi Jim, which kind of wallet we are using after exchange go live?
Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:10]
OK, I have a hot lunch date with my 5 year old. I will be back on here in a bit. Thanks everyone!!!
Jack, [14.07.18 01:10]
cos Blossom is under development
Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:11]
Thank you Jim, very quality AMA!
trade.io, [14.07.18 01:11]
Thanks Jim!
S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:11]
Thanks jim for ama @JimPreissler
Johnson, [14.07.18 01:11]
Thanks Jim! Enjoy your lunch
Ro$€, [14.07.18 01:12]
Thank you
Grimlock, [14.07.18 01:12]
ok guys, AMA is over. Time to load up your TIO bags and check in!
Jack, [14.07.18 01:12]
[In reply to Jack]
hi @Trade_IO, could you answer this?
trade.io, [14.07.18 01:13]
For your Q's please drop Admins a PM. We will collect your Q's and forward it to Jim. The AMA with Jim will also be uploaded on our Reddit page. Thank you!
???, [14.07.18 01:13]
Jim,I strongly recommend that you develop app!!
Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 01:13]
Thanks Jim, Admin, and of course the TIOnauts...great dialogue as usual

submitted by Scarlet_TIO to u/Scarlet_TIO [link] [comments]

Phez: Loosing $29,014 Creating the Bitcoin-Rewarding Reddit

Hey /Entrepreneur, it’s Rich from Failory here one more time with a new interview. This time with Shanti, a failed entrepreneur who built Phez, a Reddit clone that rewarded users with Bitcoin.
 
Key points:
 
Hi Shanti! What's your background, and what are you currently working on?
Hello. I’m a 38-year-old software developer and entrepreneur based in Portland, Oregon. Phez (formerly located at phez.co) was a Reddit alternative that I launched in the summer of 2015. The concept of Phez was to reward content submitters in Bitcoin and had an emphasis on free speech. I was the sole creator of Phez, and honestly, this isn’t an utterly remarkable story where we blew through $17 million in VC funding and ended up crashing and burning or anything exciting like that. It’s just an honest take on what happened when a side project fails.
The business model was going to be very similar to Reddit, with the exception that we would also reward the top contributors in Bitcoin payments. So, the idea was that we would eventually build a big enough audience to run ads, sell in-house ads, offer premium subscriptions (e.g. phez gold, etc.).
 
What motivated you to start Phez?
I’m a big believer in free speech. Reddit has had its issues with silencing certain communities over the years. It’s a private company; that’s their right. But I believe there should be somewhere online where you can voice opinions that are outside of the Overton window. My background is in web programming -- primarily backend development, but I know enough front-end to cobble together an okay-ish Bootstrap-powered site. Phez was just a side project for me. I built the initial prototype over a few long weekends, then continued to iterate on it over several months. I’ve been doing freelance Ruby on Rails development for the last five or six years.
Phez definitely wasn’t my first rodeo in the side project game. I have literally lost track of how many little side projects I have created over the years. That may be indicative of a problem area for me -- that I don’t give an idea enough time to flourish. It’s very hard to tell when one should “put down” one of their darlings and move on to potentially greener pastures.
(In hindsight, something similar to Phez has actually done fairly well in the marketplace, by many accounts: Steemit. It is a social network backed by its own cryptocurrency. It’s a great idea, but much more ambitious than what I had in mind with Phez.)
 
How did you build it?
I’ve been developing Ruby on Rails web applications since shortly after DHH released the framework, some 10+ years ago now. So, I knew that I would use RoR. To launch, I just wanted the MVP set of features for a Reddit clone: posts, communities of interest, voting, commenting, etc. I was the primary developer throughout the entirety of Phez’s brief lifespan (a few other contributors submitted patches). I use Sublime Text for an editor, and my typical deployment stack is: Amazon AWS, Ubuntu Linux, Ruby on Rails (latest at the time), PostgreSQL, nginx, and unicorn.
The initial product looked terrible! Just like a boilerplate Bootstrap site, that was very obviously a Reddit clone, functionality-wise. One of the biggest obstacles I faced was responsive HTML/CSS development (getting the same HTML to look decent on desktops and mobile devices). As a backend developer, who also deploys/manages applications (e.g. some DevOps), you have to know pretty much already. Then throw in HTML, CSS, JavaScript, jQuery, etc. on top of that -- and you are looking at pretty many technologies, and it’s hard to master them all. So, I pride myself on being a jack-of-all-trades, but yes, perhaps, master of only a few.
Publicity is an area that I’ve never had a knack for, honestly. I basically just find a few subreddits that might appreciate it and launch my projects on there. Maybe a handful of other social networks, but I never do much promotion otherwise, typically. That was the case with Phez.
 
Which were your marketing strategies to grow your business?
I guess that was the problem, I didn’t have one or any. I was hoping for some -- any -- kind of natural, viral growth. But it just didn’t happen. It was hard to get even one single user to contribute anything that wasn’t the most bottom-tier, effortless kind of post. It seemed like 99% of posts/comments were made with just the idea of doing the bare minimum to receive a Bitcoin micropayment. I believe there was a problem with the model altogether -- that when you suddenly introduce money into the equation (and it’s, say, nickels or dimes in Bitcoin equivalent, in this situation), people may feel even less likely to contribute. That is, then if they were just receiving imaginary Internet karma points. (Even though Phez had the notion of karma, too.)
One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that dominant social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter have pushed out many of the smaller sites, where one used to be able to find content. Back in the day, one could email a handful of bloggers and get the word out about a new project. It’s much more difficult to do that today.
 
Which were the causes of Phez’s failure?
The main cause of Phez’s failure was a poor business model. It was self-funded, with about $350 or so worth of Bitcoin (to be paid out to the top contributors each month), and some more funds used for Amazon AWS. The first month -- I know people were curious as to whether it was a scam or not. But then the payments actually went out. So, people knew they could make at least, say, $10 to $25 or so in Bitcoin, if they were one of the top contributors. The payout structure was like a pyramid where the top user might get $25 or so, and then the other $100 or whatever was split between the rest of the top, say, 15 contributors.
I kept improving Phez over the course of several months, but traffic was not increasing. SPAM and attempts to game the system were a major issue, as one could imagine. I knew they would be, of course. But every few weeks, it seemed like someone would come up with a new way to post gibberish comments/posts, in an attempt to boost their karma rankings. There was hardly any traffic on the site, so I monitored everything pretty closely. It was very easy to shut these attempts down, but it was still annoying nonetheless.
I made sure to announce ahead of time that Phez would be closing so that people would know on the 1st of the next month, users would no longer be getting rewarded for posting content, and the site would be shuttered shortly thereafter. It was actually a relief to shut it down. It wasn’t fun for me to work on it anymore.
 
Which were your biggest mistakes and challenges you had to overcome?
The biggest mistake was probably just that it was a flawed concept, to begin with. Something like Steemit seems much more viable. But they have an actual cryptocurrency that backs their social media platform. I believe they have a whole team of developers. I’m just a web programming guy. It would take me years to get over the learning curve to build a cryptocurrency in C++, and I just have no desire, either.
Phez was a very poor man’s Reddit. There was NO competitive advantage, other than the idea of getting rewarded for your content in Bitcoin. Sure, we had the concept of “free speech platform,” but there was already Voat, and that has just turned into a toxic echo-chamber itself. (That seems to be what happens when major social media platforms limit free speech. A certain kind of speech gets shuffled over to its own echo chamber, where it stews. I don’t think that’s the healthiest approach to speech on the Internet, but that’s just my opinion.)
One big mistake was rewarding users in cryptocurrency (say, instead of just USD) in the year 2015 when it would happen to rise meteorically over the next few years. Hindsight is always 20/20, though.
 
Which were your expenses? Did you achieve some revenue? In the end, how much money did you lose?
On July 15th, 2015, one Bitcoin was worth approximately $260 USD. Of course, the price fluctuated throughout the several months that Phez was live. But let’s use this rough amount as an estimate for the value of one BTC back then.
I would estimate that we paid out somewhere between 1 and 2 BTC (I don’t remember the exact figures). Let’s assume it was 1.5 bitcoins so we can do some calculations. At the time, that was only $390 USD. Not a huge investment, if you think about it. I was willing to throw that amount away if I had to, to get the site going. What I didn’t know--what was hard to predict back then--was that the price of Bitcoin would rise meteorically over the coming years.
Let’s assume I was actually a master market predictor and could have timed the market perfectly, and cashed out this entire amount of BTC at its last peak (at the time of this writing) at $19,343 on December 16th, 2017.
$19,343 * 1.5 BTC = $29,014.50 (!!!)
Wow, do I feel stupid now.
Amazon AWS hosting costs were minimal -- probably $20 per month or so. The most important thing I lost was the opportunity cost of my time. I poured at least 100 hours into Phez development.
One cool thing about Phez: if you are looking for an open source Reddit clone written in Ruby on Rails, the source code for Phez is still available online in GitHub.
 
If you had to start over, what would you do differently?
If I could go back in time, I’d tell myself to wait and pick a better idea than doing a Reddit clone with Bitcoin rewards. (Also, it’s a silly name!)
I tried reaching out to Ruby on Rails developers who were potentially interested in helping out with Phez development. The idea was that it could power other sites than just the one at phez.co. This ended up being a waste of time. A few guys were interested, but they just ended up kicking the tires and didn’t contribute all that much in the end.
If I could do it all over again, of course, I’d just reward users with USD instead of Bitcoin. But the idea that it was Bitcoin (as opposed to just USD) was a pretty core part of the concept. I believe there were already other content networks where you could get micropayments (in USD) for your content.
I suppose I should have spent more time trying to market the site. It’s just not my strong suit.
I built an entire API for Phez because I had big dreams of a mobile app one day. I don’t think the API had even one single user, ever!
Overall, I just invested too much time in this failed experiment. That’s what I regret most actually (the opportunity cost of my time), even more so than paying out some Bitcoins before they rose in price dramatically.
 
Which are your favorite entrepreneurial resources?
Y Combinator’s Hacker News, of course. It’s actually been a while since I’ve done a lot of entrepreneurial reading. I was a major reader of all kinds of business books back in the day, and just got kind of burned out on them.
One good one that comes to mind is “The E-Myth”, and there’s an updated version as well.
The gist of it can be boiled down to this: let’s say you sell widgets. You think you are in the business of creating and selling widgets. But what you’re actually doing (if you want to be successful) is creating a system or business process that allows you to create and sell those widgets. That’s where the real value is--the system--not in creating the best or cheapest widget.
It’s not an earth-shattering concept by any means, just something to keep in mind for business owners who are just starting out. For me, I love creating automated websites that can eventually just bring in cash each month with minimal effort.
 
Where can we go to learn more?
I’m in the process of launching a new project, called Timewalk Ventures. We’re trying to do something similar to Y Combinator, but for smaller side projects. Moreover, make sure you check out my Twitter!
 
Original interview published at https://www.failory.com/interview/phez
submitted by richclominson to Entrepreneur [link] [comments]

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